164. The Return of Men This Way

0:00 [SPEAKER_00]: We just needed people to be with us in our grief. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think to Sylvie's credit, her journey was a bit different. [SPEAKER_00]: She did have to maintain a sort of hopeless, envisioning, knowing I had to go all the way to the grief. [SPEAKER_00]: I had to go all the way to the acceptance of the finale that what I want is not going to happen. [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Men This Way, the podcast for every man who seeks to live his deepest purpose in life, who is committed to showing up fully and giving his unique gifts to the world, because if not you, then who?

0:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host and fellow journeyman, Brian Reeves, Brian with a Y Reeves, Men This Way. [SPEAKER_00]: It's been a long time my man has been a long time since we did this. [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. [SPEAKER_00]: Especially under the banner of men this way. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited about that. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel good about that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, me too. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we've been the last what two years. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we took a lot of this year off, but we've been under the banner of bridging connections, which is a beautiful name.

1:27 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a beautiful name. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's time to go back to them in this way. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and I take the blame a little bit for bridging connections, not that there's blame to be had. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a little bit. [SPEAKER_00]: There's a little bit of it. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe. [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, one of the conversations that we've had that I've been hammering for a little while is, you know, you're, you're work in the relationship space. [SPEAKER_01]: You have attracted an incredible female audience, women who, who have leaned in their relationships in amazing ways, but also have been encouraging the men and their lives to be leaning in and, and I just knew, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: It's 80% of your audience that we had this men this way, conversation, and we're wondering, like, how do we make sure we include women in the conversation?

2:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it was an experiment. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it's it was a good experiment and you know, like a lot of things in life, I think also you'd have to to kind of go in a direction that actually turns out to be not the direction in order to get clarity that way to second either you know the direction I was going on before I pivoted was the right direction. [SPEAKER_00]: And look, you know, I do this work, you know, this, we've from the beginning of art, even our partnership. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, we do this in partnership with life. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're looking for life to give us its own input and feedback. [SPEAKER_00]: And that really came in strong, was it last summer? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

3:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It was last summer at the elevator to 25 retreat, right? [SPEAKER_00]: That's our year-long program where we work with 10 men for an entire year. [SPEAKER_00]: We have that in-person retreat. [SPEAKER_00]: in the summer and those men at that retreat, that was a really pivotal moment because that's when you and I were deep in that existential question. [SPEAKER_00]: Do we deepen in men's work or do we pivot and, yeah, serve the 70% of my audience that is women because I've focused a lot on relationships, you know, my books and everything. [SPEAKER_00]: And those men at that retreat, [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, I mean, they made it so clear and compelling.

3:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And the experience they were having, the feedback they were giving is like, you guys cannot stop doing this work. [SPEAKER_00]: we need this, men need this, it's profound, it's transformational, it matters to our families. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, it was a real, you know, I won't use a word crisis, but it definitely was an existential moment of real questioning. [SPEAKER_01]: What does the world need? [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, we're thinking about and you still be your wife does incredible of relationship work as well. [SPEAKER_01]: And, [SPEAKER_01]: I know you've launched a really robust school community with her this year and you know that it's not that you're not continuing to serve women and and it's on right but but I just think that there is an unbelievable need that exists in the world and we get that confirmation especially.

4:39 [SPEAKER_01]: when men gather, whether or not it was the 25 retreat or the 26 retreat or the experience that we just came back the elevate epic adventure in Costa Rica. [SPEAKER_01]: That we just got back from. [SPEAKER_01]: And what I'm what I'm really present to now is that there is an even maybe even more important reason. [SPEAKER_01]: Why we are coming back to the name men this way. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's right. [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. [SPEAKER_00]: I am as at the time of this recording my wife is six months pregnant with our baby boy [SPEAKER_00]: And it's still, it's still kind of crazy to say those words, what a journey you all have been through.

5:30 [SPEAKER_00]: What a journey we've been through, man. [SPEAKER_00]: It has been, it has just been, been fraught with, with moments of of of of of of hope and excitement. [SPEAKER_00]: They've followed by quick dissents and the devastation and despair. [SPEAKER_00]: over these last six years, and even this this pregnancy, you know, the first few months of it, I was just tracing for, for, again, more devastation in despair, but man. [SPEAKER_00]: So these haven't a great pregnancy as a pregnancy's go. [SPEAKER_00]: A little baby boy. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, that we are welcoming. [SPEAKER_00]: He's kicking up a storm right now, man. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my goodness. [SPEAKER_00]: Like at night, morning, I had my hand on Sylvia's belly this morning and dude's just playing soccer in there, man.

6:16 [SPEAKER_00]: wild. [SPEAKER_01]: And I really appreciate you just kind of sharing some of this. [SPEAKER_01]: I know that in the world, I hear a lot of stories about the impact on women when there is a long journey to pregnancy. [SPEAKER_01]: And really, for a long, long time, it was a long journey of longing for a pregnancy. [SPEAKER_01]: And it was literally a year ago that we had the epic elevator adventure in Ireland where you actually had to bury the hope of you having a child.

6:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, there's been, there's obviously an incredible journey to women have to go through on this. [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't often hear about the journey that men are holding in this space. [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, take us back a year ago when you metaphorically and and really physically, [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was at our Ireland men's retreat just one year ago. [SPEAKER_00]: We did a grief ritual which was beautiful led by our friend Jonathan Greenfield. [SPEAKER_00]: And [SPEAKER_00]: Oh man, I mean, I just sobbed you were calm and it was a beautiful moment for me to be in the presence of other men who could help help contain and witness my grief so that I can release it and express it.

7:52 [SPEAKER_00]: That's one of the things missing for most men these days. [SPEAKER_00]: We don't have anyone that can really help us hold the grief. [SPEAKER_00]: So we become the holders of it and we can't let it go. [SPEAKER_00]: Right, Francis Weller, author of the wild edge of sorrow, says we need two things to breathe properly, we need containment and release. [SPEAKER_00]: And if we don't have containment, if we are our own container, we can't release. [SPEAKER_00]: And so gathering with other men in that way, in that beautiful land of Ireland, which is so sacred in specials in my spiritual home. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we dug that hole and, and, you know, in a buried, richfully buried the dream of facility, you know, having our own child together.

8:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man, it was, you know, under that old ash tree. [SPEAKER_00]: What a moment, man. [SPEAKER_00]: It was, you know, on this journey, we've had a lot of people. [SPEAKER_00]: well-intentioned and well-meaning, you know, say you just can't give up hope, you got to, you can manifest, you know, that whole trip, you know, or I know a guy, I know a guy that you all need to see, you know, would you fly to Germany to meet the fuck no, I'm not flying to Germany to see the guy that you think is going to solve everything. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, we just needed people to be with us in our grief. [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I think to Sylvie's credit, you know, her journey was a bit different. [SPEAKER_00]: She, she did have to maintain a sort of hopeless of visioning, knowing I had to go all the way to the grief.

9:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I had to go all the way to the... [SPEAKER_00]: to the acceptance of the finality that what I want is not going to happen. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I've got going to be a part of your journey for a long time and you've been really, I don't know, a powerful vessel of this message of the willingness to letting something go or letting something die is the is actually the pathway of being able [SPEAKER_01]: to clear the way for what is meant to happen, right? [SPEAKER_01]: If you're in relationship, you have to be willing for it, not to work, for it, willing it for it to end in a breakup in order for you to actually be able to experience the fullness of what's possible in that relationship.

10:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And so in some ways metaphorically, you getting to the point of where you buried the hope, actually, [SPEAKER_01]: You know, in some ways, I don't know, created the pathway for you to be sitting here. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the surrender experiment in practice, in action. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, not that I, you know, surrender. [SPEAKER_00]: I've got it tattooed on my arm, right? [SPEAKER_00]: That word, and you know, the surrender experiment by Michael Singer, one of, you know, a really great epic book. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I met Sylvie. [SPEAKER_00]: uh, I think three months after I had that same moment of, you know what, I've done everything. [SPEAKER_00]: I know what to do to find the woman that I want to build a life with.

10:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like 40 or 41. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I just, I've done everything. [SPEAKER_00]: I've looked for her everywhere. [SPEAKER_00]: I've tried to turn women who weren't her into her, and just did nothing ever really clicked. [SPEAKER_00]: And [SPEAKER_00]: I released it, I let it go, I was like, fine, like life, you know, had that moment on the mount top, literally on that hike, just like, okay, if I'm, if you, if life you won't need to be single and for the rest of my days, so be it. [SPEAKER_00]: I know what I want, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not releasing what I want, but I'm willing to not have it. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's surrender, man, there's something about that. [SPEAKER_00]: Like it just clears channels. [SPEAKER_00]: It's, you know, there's that saying what you resist persists, I think, and you're resisting being alone, only causes us to be a fucking alone.

11:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Even in relationship, because we'll make choices, we'll shut ourselves down, we won't say the things we need to say, because we're afraid of being abandoned or whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: And inside of that, we feel alone anyway. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how much of this you want to share. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'll just throw off the question and you can dodge it or go into it. [SPEAKER_01]: I remember early on, you kind of sharing the story. [SPEAKER_01]: We're in miracle, baby territory. [SPEAKER_01]: And you had talked about early on that you were kind of bracing bring us into that if you're if you're willing just to you know to what extent you you want to kind of share that that this really is a miracle I mean not only did you have to surrender it let it go and and so these holding on to hope and then you get to this threshold moment where we were we were we were literally.

12:33 [SPEAKER_00]: weeks away from implanting in embryo, that was not both our genetic code, if you will. [SPEAKER_00]: It was not, it did not, you know, genetically belong to both of us. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll just say I like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Keep that, keep that big, but we were literally weeks away, um, that the period that still they never got because she got pregnant was the period we were waiting for to [SPEAKER_00]: That's so crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I was telling the last night that like a year ago, we, you know, we, you know, we, you know, what a journey. [SPEAKER_00]: We've moved so many times in the last five years. [SPEAKER_00]: I've bought so many mattresses. [SPEAKER_00]: It's ridiculous.

13:14 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a whole other podcast. [SPEAKER_00]: We finally settled into a place in LA last October, November, and I said, Silly, I don't want to talk about the baby thing for till the new year. [SPEAKER_00]: I need to just settle, I literally don't want to have any conversations about it. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, because she was still eager to, let's go, let's try the final thing that we can try and I can't, no, I just can't, I need a break from it, as she honored that, and [SPEAKER_00]: And thank God, I was so hurt last night, thank God, like we both honored that I honored that in me and she honored what was coming to them because had we not we might have implanted that embryo a few months earlier.

13:56 [SPEAKER_00]: and the child that is hers and mine together would have never, it might have never have come true. [SPEAKER_00]: No, all of that is to say, you know, had we had that other child had be great. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure it'd be great. [SPEAKER_00]: And though, you know, we were about to put down $50,000 man on red on the roulette table. [SPEAKER_00]: Also on hope and there's no money back guarantee that that even works and I remember meeting with the doctors the two different fertility doctors and I was just like They were great man the doctors were great with the two different appointments and the same week and they were great, but I left those meetings with them just like defeated I remember feeling so fucking heavy just like [SPEAKER_00]: I guess surrendered, but defeated, you know, defeated by life was the feeling and it was hard man.

14:55 [SPEAKER_00]: It was sad. [SPEAKER_00]: It was, it was, it was, it gets more grief. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: It was a lot coming up from me. [SPEAKER_00]: And then literally two weeks later, so they got pregnant, completely naturally without ever having to move forward. [SPEAKER_00]: It was just, so we are legit in miracle baby territory. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and the other thing that I'm really present to, right? [SPEAKER_01]: We make this point when guys sign up for whatever program is like you have started the program the day you buy the ticket for the trip or the day you put your deposit down. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like in some ways like you are in the world of the next future as soon as you are, you know, you're putting your chips into the game, so to speak. [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I've kind of made this remark to you a couple of times, but [SPEAKER_01]: The truth is, in my perspective, in a way, you and Sylvie actually became parents.

15:46 [SPEAKER_01]: The moment you all made a decision to have children and to try to have children. [SPEAKER_01]: Because the the journey and the hope and the heartbreak and the [SPEAKER_01]: leaning into supporting one another as you deal with a child whether or not it's born or unborn or a hope or you know as soon as you all made the decision so tell me what it's been like for you as you have been growing as a father. [SPEAKER_00]: Gosh man, like so many things. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I remember when I started managing a music band, right? [SPEAKER_00]: These guys, I was in love with their music. [SPEAKER_00]: This was, I don't know, 20 years ago now. [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember for the first seven months that I was managing them, I didn't feel like I could call myself a manager.

16:28 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like, I, you know, imposter syndrome was just, I was literally managing them, but I did not feel like I had earned the manager title. [SPEAKER_00]: It felt awkward to say it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the same now. [SPEAKER_00]: It's been coming a father's been the same. [SPEAKER_00]: I still kind of as part of me is like, [SPEAKER_00]: I don't really, can I really say I'm a father? [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I haven't held the baby in my hands. [SPEAKER_00]: I've been, but psychologically, I have very much been a father. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I can't cry over the dream of a child if I'm not already in father mind. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if that blueprint isn't already coming online, [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but all the same still the last few months, uh, that similar kind of imposter syndrome 52 years old.

17:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, I, I don't know what it's like to have a kid at, you were held when you had, you were like 35. [SPEAKER_01]: 35. [SPEAKER_01]: 36 about to be 37 and then I was a month and a half away from turning 40. [SPEAKER_01]: Um. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, with your 52, I'm 52, my identity as a non-father is runes pretty deep, you know, like a f- [SPEAKER_00]: 52 years of not being a father, about 50 anyway, 51, 52 still. [SPEAKER_00]: So you know, still it's still fragile, still feels very fragile. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like I'm pledging a fraternity, you know, I'm not really in the fraternity yet. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just pledging.

17:53 [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, fortunately, the men that I surround myself with, they're not hazing me, you know, men like you and I've got some sort of so many epic dads that have that love dad that are just that dad well. [SPEAKER_00]: and who are quick to say Brian, know you're one of us now. [SPEAKER_01]: And the other thing that I'm present to, you know, I know the way that you have been leaning in to and tending to Sylvie and her pregnancy. [SPEAKER_01]: And one of the big, big, big mistakes that I made when [SPEAKER_01]: uh, when Elsa gave birth to Alexa, is that I didn't tend to Elsa enough as an act of being a good father, right?

18:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Because she was pouring so much of herself giving, so nursing and [SPEAKER_01]: just the umbilical cord connection that a mother has with their children. [SPEAKER_01]: And part of what of what I've learned is that part of being a great dad is tending to the mother of my children as an act of fatherhood. [SPEAKER_01]: And you've been leaning in in that way intentionally, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I've been learning a lot about what happens for men in when their partners are pregnant and I'm going to do a whole podcast episode on this because it's really fascinating and not talking enough about or even at all really, but there are there are four pathways a man.

19:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Can walk when his partner gets pregnant and in the first pathway is he can he actually just he bounces He checks out he leaves. [SPEAKER_00]: He literally leaves the relationship. [SPEAKER_00]: He goes to somewhere else to establish an identity He doesn't become a father. [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't become the partner to a pregnant person. [SPEAKER_00]: He's just like I'm out That happens, you know women raise it raising they have they give birth by themselves and because the guy takes off [SPEAKER_00]: The second path is the more common one for a lot of men of the West, especially, and that's like, okay, we're there, we're present, but we're also like it's not really our pregnancy. [SPEAKER_00]: She's pregnant. [SPEAKER_00]: I've got to, I'm just going to go work. [SPEAKER_00]: I got to, you know, if you need me to pick up pickles at the grocery store, cool, I'll do that, you know, text me.

20:10 [SPEAKER_00]: But otherwise, I'm doing my thing. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't really know what I'm supposed to do otherwise. [SPEAKER_00]: You're the pregnant one. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll make sure the house doesn't catch on fire and the bills get paid. [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of harm gets caused, actually, in that dynamic, because women, in fact, have been working with two couples the last few months. [SPEAKER_00]: uh one's been together 30 years and another been to get been together just five and they've they both have that trauma if you will of of of of the wife feeling abandoned even though the guy he didn't he doesn't in his mind I didn't abandon her I just didn't I don't know what you want for me I'm here I went to all the appointments I we bought all the stuff together we set up the room [SPEAKER_01]: but not really there.

21:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Not, not really. [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I asked one woman, you know, like, would you say your husband was really present during your birth or during your pregnancy? [SPEAKER_00]: She said, well, I'll put it like this. [SPEAKER_00]: I put together the crib myself. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, got it, got it. [SPEAKER_00]: And not that that alone means it something, but she's pointing to a larger experience as she had. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, and then there's the third really interesting path which is a man, he sort of, [SPEAKER_00]: The sympathetically connects with what the woman is going through and he'll experience the sub-serve some symptoms of pregnancy even.

21:49 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, for example, in the first trimester, Sylvie was exhausted all the time. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was right there with her. [SPEAKER_00]: I felt exhausted a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: like I mirrored her exhaustion and you know we had this running joke because when I first said we were pregnant because I thought that's where you would say we're pregnant. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was the you know enlightened thing. [SPEAKER_00]: She was like no she's like no I'm pregnant we're having a baby. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, got it, got it. [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks, like, and though that's good. [SPEAKER_00]: That's fair. [SPEAKER_00]: It's fair. [SPEAKER_00]: You know our friend Jonathan, when his child was born like John, he showed his his body became all puffy.

22:31 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, he's a very empathetic man. [SPEAKER_00]: He, he, his body, he showed me pictures of when he was just holding his baby and it's like, it's almost like he was the one that that that was all puffy and his body had taken on the the birth. [SPEAKER_00]: weight and all of that. [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, that's an example of kind of, you know, a man sympathetically connecting to her pregnancy and even potentially showing some symptoms like he's really empathically participating. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, the fourth one, this is the, the route of the handmaids tale. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like where the man owns the pregnancy, the woman is just a vessel for his child to come through. [SPEAKER_00]: Right, that's the hand, the world of the handmaid's tail, where that's all women are just vessels for is like he owns the birth and so those are typically I wanted to a whole podcast episode next.

23:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's it would be really interesting when we were at our at the retreat and Costa Rica. [SPEAKER_01]: One of the things I think is really incredibly beautiful, especially given your journey, writing the book, you know, choose your everyday or leave her, and the journey that you've lived inside of the men's, the men's way of work, and just trying to really help step, help men step into their greatness as the fullness of what it needs to be a man. [SPEAKER_01]: is actually the journey that you and Sylvia have gone through in the naming of your son. [SPEAKER_01]: And the historical, you know, representation of that name, I just think is really, really profound.

24:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're open to Sharon, both the name of your son, [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's some significance in naming, and what you're calling for inside of this name. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's funny as we've been on this journey. [SPEAKER_00]: I've asked a lot of people about how did they name their children, and one couple stands out to me. [SPEAKER_00]: The first child they had, it was so important. [SPEAKER_00]: And then I think by the third or fourth there was just like we were just picking things out of a book and just throw a slap in it on the kid. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like we just did we just kind of like can't be bothered with the heavy lifting of the first break.

24:52 [SPEAKER_00]: But for us, yeah, we're likely only to have this one child. [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, we're we're we're thoughtful people. [SPEAKER_00]: So that we the name we wanted the name to really be meaningful to us. [SPEAKER_00]: And we were we had a girl's name picked out. [SPEAKER_00]: for years you know that again that's a whole other story um you know my desire to have a girl and then finding out is going to have a boy man this way we're back yeah back to men this way man but we didn't have a name for a boy because we didn't anticipate we were so sure we were going [SPEAKER_00]: So we played with a few names, um, you know, it was like, uh, kind of had that vibe to it.

25:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And then one day, Sylvie came into my office and I just touched her belly and said Tristan. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just like it just clicked in a moment, Tristan. [SPEAKER_00]: And she had her eyes lit up. [SPEAKER_00]: It felt like holy shit. [SPEAKER_00]: And where that name came from, for me, was from an old 12th century myth story about Tristan and Isold. [SPEAKER_00]: And Tristan and Isold, the 12th century was a time when romantic love was first entering the world through our psyche, the psyche of the world.

26:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, well, in this myth story, Tristan is a little boy born into a world that is dominated by shadow masculine concerns that, you know, it's all about power and status and domination and conquering kingdoms where the kings are only interested in more land in women, sisters, [SPEAKER_00]: They are used as trade, you know, to forge alliances, like romantic love is in a thing. [SPEAKER_00]: The feminine has been, she's, she's been shoved underground, and that's where she lives.

27:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Tristan is born into this world. [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, the word, the word, Tristan comes from the, like the French, a tristess, which means sad, sadness. [SPEAKER_00]: and he's born into this world of sadness of, again, where the feminine has been, she has been denigrated, she has been violated, she has been suppressed. [SPEAKER_00]: And the story of Tristan and Isle is the story of this boy born into this world of sadness, but he's also born as a beacon of hope. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, his journey is through that story, is the journey of the feminine reawakening in the world, of love coming online.

28:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a fascinating and beautiful epic tale. [SPEAKER_00]: And anyway, that's the name, just popped into my head, because that's a story that there's a book by a man named Robert Johnson called Wee. [SPEAKER_00]: that tells that story and breaks it down from a youngie in Carl Jung, a depth psychology perspective, and it's just mind-blowingness, one of my favorite favorite books. [SPEAKER_01]: So, well, I love the correlation also with Ray, we're in some ways we went to a bridging connections conversation and we're returning to a men this way, but it is, you know, the birth of your son, [SPEAKER_01]: I just cannot tell you how excited I am because if there is a couple in this world that deserves to bear a child into it, to give your world and this world some hope, I would say man, men like you and women like Sylvie, we need parents like you in this world to give birth to life.

29:07 [SPEAKER_00]: But thank you, man, and it's like so many things. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not what I wanted. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't want, I didn't want, I just say it. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't want a boy. [SPEAKER_00]: I really wanted a girl. [SPEAKER_00]: Like so many things in my freaking life. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't want that. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to this. [SPEAKER_00]: And then life was like, okay, thank you for the suggestion. [SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna give you that because that's what we'll serve. [SPEAKER_00]: And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, [SPEAKER_00]: There is a perfection in it man. [SPEAKER_00]: There is a perfection in just in case my son ever listens to this podcast. [SPEAKER_00]: Please know I so fucking and happy that you are born and and I got over that initial resistance. [SPEAKER_00]: It took me a few days, maybe a week, but but I got over it. [SPEAKER_00]: And men this way, again, that's the kind of landing this plane, bringing this home, I do think we live in a world that is going to men have to become more whole.

30:00 [SPEAKER_00]: We have to bring on the dormant parts of ourselves. [SPEAKER_00]: We have to flesh out, give more flesh to what masculinity is the flavors of men that are available to us, [SPEAKER_00]: have been taken off the table for us, and that's got to change, that has to change. [SPEAKER_00]: The world is just entering in the more chaos, and it's a, yes, but becoming a first time parent, man, I mean, you're a parent, you got kids that are entering teenagehood. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the world's a crazy ass place. [SPEAKER_00]: We need men who are embodied, who feel, who are attuned to ourselves, but also to the world around us.

30:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, the fact that I'm having a son, you know, there's that part of me's like, oh, I do, I really, I have to, [SPEAKER_00]: And yes, and yes, and I get to and I have excited in order. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want them to do this. [SPEAKER_01]: I want them to do that. [SPEAKER_01]: How come I can't get them to do this? [SPEAKER_01]: How want them to be like this? [SPEAKER_01]: And yet they are uniquely beautifully. [SPEAKER_01]: How they are, you are. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't let anybody tell you, you're not a father because it has already begun. [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, you mentioned this notion of flavors of them, one of the things I'm so excited about for this fall is the lineup of guests that we have.

31:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And, and in the world, I'll let you talk about the, you know, the folks that we have scheduled, but, you know, one of the things that we've made a commitment to doing is bringing. [SPEAKER_01]: to this conversation more of the flavors of men that have been, we've been having, you know, blessed to be able to work with. [SPEAKER_01]: They've done programs without us. [SPEAKER_01]: We've got two Air Force pilots that have lived in that world. [SPEAKER_01]: and have done deep, deep work in our world and to be able to bring men like that into the conversation and entrepreneurs and leaders and artists and just all kinds of epic men that I'm really excited about bringing into this conversation this fall and this in this winter and stay tuned.

32:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'll also we're going to be interviewing Dr. Shafali who wrote two different books, raising conscious sons and raising conscious daughters. [SPEAKER_00]: Really excited for the conversation with her. [SPEAKER_00]: Mark Wolin, who's work on he wrote a book called It Didn't Start With You. [SPEAKER_00]: It's an international bestseller on inherited family trauma. [SPEAKER_00]: that's going to be a fascinating interview. [SPEAKER_00]: We'll be interviewing a woman. [SPEAKER_00]: I've been on her podcast a few times. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the first time inviting her onto ours who she specializes in divorce and healing from divorce. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just going to have interesting conversations.

33:03 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're men this way. [SPEAKER_00]: We still want women to know that you're welcome to listen in and to share [SPEAKER_00]: you know, but we're so we're going to have female guests. [SPEAKER_00]: My wife, Sylvie, I expect will be making appearances, although she's also getting ready to give birth. [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: And TPD. [SPEAKER_00]: TPD. [SPEAKER_00]: TPD. [SPEAKER_00]: TPD. [SPEAKER_00]: TPD. [SPEAKER_01]: TPD. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so excited. [SPEAKER_00]: We've got we're also uh, elevate 2027. [SPEAKER_00]: We would be remiss if we didn't share that elevate 2027, which will be kicking off in January, um, go to brionreaves.com slash elevate, uh, brion with the y Reeves.com slash elevate to learn more to to to jump into that journey with us, um, that we've been doing.

33:56 [SPEAKER_00]: This will be our [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, more retreats. [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to Norway next September. [SPEAKER_00]: We've got 18 spots. [SPEAKER_00]: We've already just by the time of this recording. [SPEAKER_00]: We only have seven left already a year in advance. [SPEAKER_00]: We've got exciting stuff going on, man. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited to be deepening in the work that we do with men. [SPEAKER_00]: Man, there's just so much so much to look forward to. [SPEAKER_01]: and just incredibly grateful to this audience for sticking with us, for being with us, for cheering us on, for sharing the word, just thank you, thank you, thank you for being here and exciting things to come.

34:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, all right, we'll thank you again for listening to men this way, join in us and we'll see you in the next one.